Another Mary Another Jesus
By Noel Chartier
Thank you, Russ! The world needs people like you. Noel needs to take a long look at her faith, and quit being so judgemental. She needs to quit being so pompous and learn that she's wrong on many things, but her basic faith in Christ is right. She just needs alittle work and some faith.
"Holy Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ Save Us"
"Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary Protect Us"
The Scriptures are totally sufficient to lead anyone into the truth. That is, if they are truely seeking God. In this case, the Holy Spirit will take the Word of God and illuminate it to the mind of the one that thirsts after righteousness.
There may be those wbleepedhave the gift of teaching (Ephesians 4:11) by the Spirit of God, but these are individuals, not an "office" as the papacy teaches. We do not need the Roman Catholic clergy, they may want to prostelyze you but they will only make you twice the son of hell. God wants you to trust Him, and His Word, not a bunch of men wbleepedwalk around wearing costumes, and flaunt themselves as some type of spiritual authority.
The revelation of God is complete. Paul said, "prophecies ... shall fail" (1 Corinthians 13:8), that is, they would come to an end. This would take place "when that which is perfect is come" (v. 10). In the context, that which is perfect, or literally, that which is complete, is clearly the revelation of God.
The last living apostle, John, closed the canon of Scripture like this, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).
I stand in fear of my Maker, and know, as Jesus said, "That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment" (Matthew 12:36). However my conscience is clear and I have peace with God through my Lord Jesus Christ, wbleepedloved me, and gave Himself for me. It is Him whom I will follow.
You can try, Russ, to sound as religious as you want, but your venere of spirituality is all dross to me, when measured with the Scriptures.
It is sad. You have taken on the persona of a deist. Your words show you believe that God is no longer active in the world. The Holy Spirit still teaches! Our Lord said that He was sending an Advocate to teach us and remind us of what He taught. The teachings did not end with Jesus. The Holy Spirit acts through the clergy, just as he worked through the apostles, so in fact Tradition is the teachings of the Holy Spirit over time. You see, to deny God is no longer active in the world is to deny the Spirit, and that is true damnation. Don't pass judgement on your Christian brothers for that is not what you were put on this earth to do. You will answer to God one day, and by then it will be too late. +JMJ+
I believe in Christ's Church, the Catholic Church, and I love it in all its goodness.
Paul clearly describes the heart of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also YE ARE SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures; And that HE WAS BURIED, and that HE ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the scripture". The Judeaizers believed this but to this they added, in order to be saved you must also be cirbleepedcised and keep the law of Moses, turning the grace of God into a perverted gospel.
As for Paul, He would declare among all those whom he was called to preach, even in the church at Rome, wbleepedas today, two thousand years ago were trying to justify themselves by their own deeds, rather than resting solely on the merits of Christ. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Romans 1:16). He would declare to the Corinthians that "it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe ... the gospel... For the preaching of the cross is to them that persih foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 2:21, 1:17-18).
Today you can believe the gospel, that Christ died for your sins and rose again, no strings attached, trusting only on His death on your behalf, and you can be saved by the power of God, just like the theif on the cross wbleepedwas powerless to do anything (baptism, sacraments, the Mass, keeping the ten commandments etc) but believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. To all those wbleepedhave such saving faith the Lords welcome reply is "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).
In the book of Acts, chapter 15, there was a council to resolve a serious matter that was revealing itself in the New Testament Church. There were certain men wbleepedcould say, "I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth. ...And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; wbleepedwas conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead" but to this they added their own preconceived notion and conditions as to how one must be saved.
We are told that this was a "certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed" (Acts 15:5). They "came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be cirbleepedcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved" (Acts 15:1). Because of this there was "no small dissension and disbleepedtion" (Acts 15:2) between the apostle Paul and them.
For this matter, they went "up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question" (Acts 15:2). "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith...But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they" (Acts 15:7-9, 11).
Herein Peter declared how that, by the grace of God, the Gentiles were saved by hearing the gosple and by faith, believing it, no strings attached. Paul and Barnabas then spoke about their work among the Gentiles (Acts 15:12), then James, wbleepedwas leading the council (NOT Peter) spoke and said, "Wherefore my sentence is...." (v. 19) and they wrote letters to be distributed among the assemblies saying, "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be cirbleepedcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment" (Acts 15:24).
This same situation has been magnified a hundred times by the popes of the Catholic chuch, wbleepedlike like the Pharisees "believed" but added to the gospel many things in order for a person to be saved. To this Paul solomnly declares, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would PERVERT the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8).
It is sad but true, that the perversion of the Catholic gospel damns anyone wbleepedbelieves it. The apostle Paul describes those wbleepedpervert the gospel as "false brethren unawares brought in, wbleepedcame in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, NO, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you" (Galatians 1:4-5). Paul would not tolerate this perversion of the gospel, and neither should any true blood bought believer.
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; wbleepedwas conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit; the holy Catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.
Indeed one of Satan's devices is to pervert or get man to doubt God's Word. In the garden he decieved Eve saying, "Yea, hath God said...?" (Genesis 3:1) Hence the many warnings in Scripture against adding to or subtracting from the Scriptures. "Every word of God is pure...Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar" (Proverbs 30:5-6). "diminish not a word" (Jeremiah 26:2). And so, "if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20).
So Paul would say, "I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me" (Romans 15:18), and "thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine" (1 Timothy 1:3), and "saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come" (Acts 26:22), "For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge" (2 Corinthians 1:3). Those wbleepedfollowed Christ "continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine" (Acts 2:42). However, from that time forward, "certain which went out from us [the apostles] have troubled you with words, subverting your souls...to whom we gave no such commandment" (Acts 15:24). God's revelation was completed with the apostles, but Catholicism has fabricated an "apostolic succession" whereby they break the very Words of God they claim to uphold.
The Catechism "Outlines of the Catholic Faith", which has the Imprimatur and the Nihil Obstat, (pg. 4,5) states: "The truths that God has revealed are found in SACRED SCRIPTURE and in SACRED TRADITION....Tradition is the unwritten word of God given by Christ through the Holy Spirit to the Apostles and handed down to their successors....Sacred tradition is revealed in the creeds, liturgy and the prayers of the Church and in the authentic teaching of the Popes and Bishops....And Tradition transmits in its entirety this Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit....Hence, both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal feelings of devotion and reverence."
To this I say BALONEY! As Christ said, "Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition" (Matthew 15:6). And Paul would give these most solemn words to those wbleepedwould seek to pervert the gospel by adding thereto or taking away, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8).
"Cursed be the man that trusteth in man... Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD" (Jeremiah 17:5, 7). I am not asking you to listen to me as an individual but to listen to the Scriptures. You should know that most of the apostles and prophets of God did not have a "degree in theology". Consider Peter, whom catholics "venerate" as the first pope (another unbiblical teaching of Rome), he was just a simple fisherman as were Andrew James and John. But when they were called they followed Christ, the Word of God.
As for Satan and his demons, do not be so naive. Satan was the most "subtle" (Genesis 3:1) of all God's creatures. Describing him, the prophet Eziekiel said, "Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty" (Ezekiel 28:12).
Listen to what Paul has to say. Those wbleepedcall themselves apostles today are "false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness" (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).
The devil will use the Scriptures, the cults will use the Scriptures, your sacraments may vaguely refer to some Scriptures, but if you will put them up to the Light of God's Word, you will find that the Catholic Church has perverted almost every doctrine of the faith in one way or another.
"...repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15).
As I listen to your words I recall a story from three of the the four Gospels. Satan used Scripture to try to tempt Jesus away from his mission (Mt. 4:1-11, Mk. 1:12-13, Lk. 4:1-13). You need to distinguish between worship and veneration. You have no degree in theology so why should one listen to you as an indiviual. Educate yourself on the people of whom I speak of. Fulton Sheen was a prominent archbishop of the Church. Berthe Petit was a Franciscan tertiary wbleepedJesus appeared to. If a demon masqueraded as Jesus them why would he say to love? Do not demons want to breed hatred? A house divided against itself cannot stand. In Ch. 12 of Rev. has the reference of Mary and her importance. All our sacraments have scripture references.
When the Bible speaks about "the faith" it is speaking of the testimony of God as recorded in the Bible. There were many decievers and false prophets wbleepedcrept into the church long ago, so Jude exhorted the believers that they "should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 1:3). This faith was once and for all delivered to the saints as it is written in the book of Hebrews, "God, wbleepedat sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:1-2). God's revelation to mankind is now complete in Christ Jesus, and any wbleepedadd or subtract thereto will be dealt with severly (Revelation 22:18-19).
If you want to follow Fulton Sheen or Berthe Petit, whoever these are, and their revelations and visions and teachings, you are welcome to it. We all have a free will to follow whom we will, but let me attest to you that you will be far better off casting off this chaff and looking to the pure, unadulterated Word of God which is able to lead you into all truth.
You may try to sound spiritual and religious, but this is just a front to your ignorance of the Scriptures. The Catholic church may have ceremonies and rituals with much pomp and incense and candles, and costly vestments and idols to venerate, and cathedrals to amaze, but this sort of religion is just a trick of the devil to cloud the minds of the ignorant with a sence of spirituality. Wbleepedis able to wake you out of your slumber?
You say that this "Berthe Petit" had a vision from "Jesus" (likely a demon masquerading as Jesus) wbleepedtold him to tell us to love his mother. What does this mean? The true Jesus said, "love one another; as I have loved you" (John 13:34). His love was manifested to those individuals whose lives crossed His path.
He never specifically pointed out to love this person or that person, but "one another". Paul said that we should, "abound in love one toward another, and toward all men" (1 Thessalonians 3:12). The greatest expression of love, as Christ said, is laying down our life for friends (John 15:13). This is unselfish agape love, a love that does not have our own interests in mind, "serving one another" (Galatians 5:13), "forebearing one another" (Ephesians 5:2), being compassionate, sympathetic, tenderhearted, courteous, etc, to one another (1 Peter 3:8).
Loving our neighbor as ourself, Christ said, is the fullfilment of the Law (Matthew 22:36-40). If you really loved your neighbor, you would not steal from him, kill him, covet his possesions, commit adultery with his spouse, bear false witness against him, dishonour him, etc. The question is, how could any of these Biblical expressions of love pertain to someone wbleepedhas died and no longer resides on this earth? The fact of the matter is, that the "communion of saints", as defined by the catholic church, is more akin to necromancy or a seance, or the pagan worship of dead ancestors. You may walk away thinking your are right, but the Scriptures prove you dead wrong.
I assumed too much. I assumed that the person that I was debating with had the ability to think and reason.
I grow weary trying to show you what is true.
If ever you were a Catholic you were a poor one. Not knowing near enough to practice your faith. Instead of trying to learn more about your faith you try to bring others to seperate from it.
I am finished with this debated with further conviction that I am right and you have rejected some of the truth that we teach. I believe in God, wbleepedis three perons Father, Son, and Spirit. I believe the Son, Jesus, came down from heaven to save us. I believe in Mary as my mother wbleepedJesus in a vision to Berthe Petit told us to love his mother. I believe in the communion of saints and life everlasting.
This is Truth as well as many other things.
I am done and walking away from this know that I am right and you are wrong.
In our community we have only seen one Catholic Fruit wbleepedsodomized several children in the community. This priest was then moved on to another community where he was allowed to sodomize other children. When he was moved on to a third parish, the people outraged, asked why has this been allowed and it was exposed to the media and the Catholic church embarasingly removed him from his position. Two of the other "catholic priests" that have passed through our community were drunkards, However, I do not know about the latest one. I live in a small community, and just maybe this is where they send all the rejects, however, one only has to read the newspapers to see that this is a problem everywhere within Catholicism. Many diocese have had to declare bankrupsy due to lawsuits against them because of the pedophiles. These are the facts whether you care to believe them or not.
During the last 1,700 years, the Roman Catholic Church has put to death hundreds of thousands she believed to be heretics -- Jews, dissident Catholics, Protestants, anabaptists, Hussites, Lollards, Waldenses, Albigenses and many others in distant lands wbleepedrefused to convert to the 'one true church.' Today, the Roman Catholic Church calls people wbleepedhold these very same opinions 'separated brethren' and teaches it is wrong to persecute on the basis of religious belief. Which church is right? The church which killed those wbleepeddispute her teachings, or the church which treats other Christians -- and even other religions -- as alternative pathways to heaven?
Please understand that we do not hate Catholics. I have many Catholic friends wbleepedby the worlds standards are called "good people", just like other "good" Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, Jehovah Witness', Mormons, etc. To the contrary, we love you so much that we preach the truth about Rome so you can see its errors and turn to the biblical faith in Christ. Our desire and prayer to God is that you might be saved. Forgiveness of sins and eternal life is a gift that was purchased by Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary, and He offers you that gift today. It is not something you have to try to earn. As a sinner, you cannot ever do enough to earn God's favor. It is not something that any church can earn for you. It is not something that can be obtained through a church ritual, such as baptism or confirmation. Salvation is the free eternal mercy of God through Jesus Christ, and He stands ready and able to receive every sinner that will come to Him by repentance and faith. The Bible says you can KNOW you have eternal life right now, today.
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:12-13).
You say "Every tradition that has ever come into being has come from our inference of Scripture". Can you refer to the Scripture on these Catholic teachings?
Where in the Bible do we find Peter assuming and exercising the role of a Catholic pope?
Where does the Bible say the early churches treated Peter in a papal fashion?
Where does the Bible say that one man is the head of all churches?
Where does Bible say God established a special priesthood for the churches that is separate from the priesthood of the believers?
Where does the Bible describe the office of such priests in the early churches?
Where does the Bible say that New Testament priests are ordained after the order of Melchizedek?
Where in the Bible do we find a requirement that pastors be celibate?
Where does the Bible say the apostles passed on their authority through a succession?
Where does the Bible give standards for apostolic succession? There are standards for pastors and deacons, but where are the standards for an ongoing apostleship?
Where does the Bible describe nuns in the early churches?
Where in the Bible do we find anyone praying to Mary or to any other person other than God?
Where does the Bible call Mary the Mother of God?
Where does the Bible say that Mary is the Queen of Heaven?
Where in the Bible do we find the teaching that Mary is sinless?
Where in the Bible do we find the baptism of an infant wbleepedis too young to believe in Christ?
Where does the Bible teach us that the church can identify dead people as saints and can then pray to them?
Where does the Bible teach that a dead person can intercede for the living?
Where does the Bible teach about purgatory?
Where does the Bible teach that churches should use the bones of dead men in any type of religious manner?
Where does the Bible teach that the churches used indulgences?
Where in the Bible do we find even one example of a Catholic mass being conducted or even described?
If Christ established the mass and if it is central to the Christian faith as Rome claims, why is there not one example of it in the book of Acts and the New Testament epistles?
Where in the Bible do we find Christians taking the Lord's supper by partaking of the bread alone without the wine or grape juice?
Where in the Bible does Paul or any of the early church leaders teach that there are seven sacraments?
Where in the Bible do we find the churches practicing the sacrament of confirmation?
Where in the Bible do we find the churches practicing any sort of extreme unction or last rites as a sacrament?
Where in the Bible do we find the prayer of the rosary?
Where in the Bible do we find that New Testament churches are to conduct elaborate rituals and ceremonies after the fashion of Rome?
Where in the Bible do we find that the headquarters for the church is to be in Rome?
We could go on....
Mary was the Mother of Jesus. She is also the spiritual mother of all wbleepedbelieve in.
How dare you call my religion lies. We are the only denomination of Christianity that remain true to the teachings of Christ and the apostles. What turned you from our path? What lured you away?
Every tradition that has ever come into being has come from our inference of Scripture, the apostles, and those inspired by the Holy Spirit.
As Jesus said judge something by its fruits. The Catholic Church continues to be the light in a world in turmoil. We do not only have faith, we practice it, and we do good for others.
The Catholic Church put the Bible together. As Our Lord said to Berthe Petit, a humble Franciscan Tertiary, in Belgium:
"Teach souls to love the heart of My Mother, pierced by the very sorrows that pierced Mine."
A do not accept Mary and spurn Jesus, but instead I accept Jesus and because of the accept Mary as my Mother.
As you see above even our Lord himself wants us to love his mother. She is also ever active in this world giving advise in Medjugorje and inspiring others to follow her son. So do not so quick to put my faith in the dust for you in your faith have changed but ours has stayed the same.