Clay and Iron
Several things are mentioned regarding the "fourth kingdom". The final world kingdom was symbolized by "His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay." (Daniel 2:33) It would stretch over a long period of time signified by the long legs. It would be "strong as iron", but it would be "divided" and become part iron and part clay which cannot be mixed. However, there would still be in it the strength of iron, nevertheless, the kingdom would be "partly strong, and partly broken."
But then we are told, "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." Now, who are "they" in Daniel 2:43? In the imediate context, it appears that "they" are referring to "these kings", "the toes of the feet". The latter end of the iron legs are the feet and toes where a mixture of clay is introduced, but it will not mix with the iron.
Now the fragility, or brittleness of "democracy" has been suggested, and indeed may be part of of it. Democracy elects representitives who are to represent the people. But the rich and the elite always seem to get in power and they almost alway have their own agenda. They mingle themselves with the seed of men, but they never cleave to one another.
Another part of "democracy" is it always seems to end up with its various factions that are always at war with one another, always fighting against one another. How many times in politics have we heard, "the system is broken"? Well, this is how the latter end of the fourth kingdom would be, "partly strong, and partly broken". At the time of the end Jesus described the nations like "the sea and the waves roaring" (Luke 21:25), never calm, never at peace, always distressed, always fearful of what might come next in the increasingly fragile world of politics. Wars and rumors of wars at the turn of every page, kingdoms rising up against one another and ethnic groups becoming increasingly racist against one another.
That appears to be the immediate context, but I would have us now look at a broader context, the context of the whole Bible, in the context of the last days. Perhaps there is another way to understand Nebuchadnezzars dream, and I would like to suggest that the rise of Israel as a nation appears to fit very well in the interpretation of the last days.
The Jews were scattered to the nations for 2000 years, they would mingle themselves among the nations but they would not mix with them. They were told not to learn the way of the heathen nor to intermarry with them. Moses said, “And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee... And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life” (Deuteronomy 28:37, 65-66).
In the book of Numbers we read of an eternal prophecy concerning Israel, “lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations.” (Numbers 23:9) It was very hard for them to blend in with the nations and to hide their identity because of their culture and language. They carried around with them a certain stigma that they just could not shake. Jesus said, “ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.” (Matthew 24:9)
When it comes down to the last days of the 4th kingdom in Nebuchadnezzar's dream, we read, “And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.” (Daniel 2:42-43)
There have been lots of interpretations as to who “they” are, who “shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another” (aliens, nephilim, Islam, demons, the church, democracy, etc) . I would submit that there is a good possibility that “they” may refer to the Jews. They would not mix with the nations. Although they would mingle themselves with the nations in the iron kingdom, they would not cleave one to the other.
In the book of Jeremiah, we find that God is the Potter and Israel is the clay. He says, “O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it... to build and to plant it... To make their land desolate, and a perpetual hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished, and wag his head. I will scatter them...” (Jeremiah 18:1-17).
When we get down to the toes of the image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream, we are told, “in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” (Daniel 2:44) This we know shall take place in the final 7 years of tribulation that God has determined upon the Jews and Jerusalem (Daniel 9:24-27). In these days, the old Roman Empire would develop into to ten dominant kingdoms who in the end will “agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.” (Revelation 17:17) But in these days the God of heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall not be left to other people, rather, it “shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom” (Daniel 7:27)
The image of Nebuchadnezzar's dream depicted the kingdoms of earth up until the time Christ returns to set up His kingdom. God had used Nebuchadnezzar to judge Israel for their abominations. The glory of God departed from the Temple because of the exceeding wickedness of the Jews (Ezekiel 11:23), and the kingdom of Israel came to an end. This began the “times of the Gentiles”, under Nebuchadnezzar and the kingdom of Babylon. From this time, Israel would be subservient to other kingdoms.
Following the kingdom of Babylon was the Medo-Persian Empire, then the Grecian Empire, followed by the Roman Empire. Before Christ ascended to heaven, His disciples asked Him, “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6-7, Daniel 2:20-22)
Jesus had already told them that they “shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) After their Babylonian captivity, God had raised up Cyrus the Mede who commanded that Israel should restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Yet, before all Israel would be saved there would be 490 years. Their Messiah would come after 483 years, but He was rejected by His people Israel and crucified. (Daniel 9:24-27)
Because of their blindness and hardness of heart, they would once again go forth into captivity. Their captivity to the nations happened in AD 70 by the Roman, Titus Vespasian. The “times of the Gentiles” would continue on. The kingdom would not be restored to Israel, rather, “blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” (Romans 11:25) This was a mystery. Israel knew not the “time of their visitation” (Luke 19:44), so now God would “visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.” (Acts 15:14)
God so loved the world (John 3:16). He said by Isaiah long ago that He would “raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.” (Isaiah 49:6) His salvation was to go to the ends of the earth, to all nations whom He loved, to the Gentiles, according to the prophecy to Abraham (Genesis 22:18, Galatians 3:8, 16).
When Simeon beheld the child Jesus, he said, “For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.” (Luke 2:30-32) But when Paul and Barnabas brought the gospel to the Jews, they became hardened and rejected Christ. Paul responded, “lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.” (Acts 13:46-47)
So, “blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” (Romans 11:25) From the time of the death and resurrection of Christ, the gospel would now go out to “all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47), during the Gentile dominion over the kingdoms. The time to restore the kingdom to Israel would be postponed. That left 7 years hanging in the balance where God would deal specifically with the Jews and Jerusalem (Daniel 9:24-27). This is commonly known as the time of “Jacob's Trouble” or the “Great Tribulation” (Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:21), but Israel “shall be saved out of it” (Jeremiah 30:7), and so “all Israel shall be saved” (Romans 11:26-28).
This brings us back to Nebuchadnezzar's dream concerning the end of the Gentile kingdoms.
“And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” (Daniel 2:40-44)
The 4th kingdom is the Roman Empire. It would be “divided”. It would be “partly strong, and partly broken”. When we get down to the feet and the toes, I believe this signifies the last days of the times of the Gentiles. The Roman empire was first divided between east and west signified by the two legs. But in the end times, it would develop into 10 kingdoms signified by the “feet and the toes”. We are likely in the feet right now (Daniel 2:28).
Now Daniel then says, “whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay”. Now when we get to the feet and the toes there is a transformation and they become part iron and part clay. I would submit, that there may be a good possibility that the “miry clay” is speaking of Israel. In May 14, 1948, Israel was once again declared a nation after 2000 years of exile. And is it not true, that “they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another”? During their captivity to the nations, they mingled with the seed of men, but could not assimilate, they could not be absorbed, but would remain a distinct people whose life revolved around their synagogue.
Listen again to the prophecy concerning Israel, “lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations.” (Numbers 23:9) Although it appears today that they are gaining some “friends”, remember, “the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:6) In the kingdom of Iron, the “miry clay” will never will never mix with the iron, the clay will never fit in because God has set them apart to be a peculiar people for Himself, a holy nation.
Remember, the nation Israel was told not to marry the heathen (Deuteronomy 7:1-4). However, there was a time that the leaders of Israel transgressed this commandment. Listen to what Ezra said, “Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass. And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle, and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down astonied.” (Ezra 9:1-3) The “holy seed” had mingled themselves with the “seed of men” and made marriages with them.
Israel would be scattered to the nations for their transgressions, but in the latter days, they would come back to their land, in the last days of the Roman Empire (in the feet of it). Listen, “whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay”. Although “they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men”, God said, “they shall not cleave one to another”. And now that they have been born again as a nation, they do not promote multiculturalism like all other nations, rather they promote Zionism, and the world hates them for it.
They will not mix with the iron. Back in the Medo Persian Empire, Jews were scattered from India to Ethiopia, and this was Haman's complaint, “And Haman said unto king Ahasuerus, There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kingdom; and their laws are diverse from all people; neither keep they the king's laws: therefore it is not for the king's profit to suffer them.” (Esther 3:8) The clay and iron “will not cleave one to another”. They will not go along with the New World Order but will remain a sovereign nation, a Jewish nation. In the days when you see the clay put into the mix and the formulation of 10 regional of powers, we are told, “in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” (Daniel 2:44)
So in the final stages of the Roman Empire, when the clay is introduced, Christ is going to break in pieces and consume all the Gentile kingdoms and set up His promised Kingdom and restore the kingdom unto Israel. Remember God's promise through His prophet Jeremiah, “Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.” (Jeremiah 46:28)
When Christ returns He is going to break the nations "with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel." (Psalm 2:9) He will make a full end of all the nations where Israel has been scattered.
“For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us. In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old” (Amos 9:9-11)
When we see the fig tree budding, it is the generation that shall know the Kingdom of God is at the door (Matthew 24:32-34, Luke 21:29-32, Jeremiah 24:5-7). Are you ready?
I mentioned in another thread dispensationlist take verses that aren't 100% clear and make up opinions. These verses are another example of that. There are so many opinions out there is crazy.
If you want to label me as a believer in replacement theology that is fine but it's far from the truth. The whole message I've been presenting to you is the bible is 100% about Jesus from genesis to revelation. Good had covenants with people (noah, Abraham, David etc) throughout the old testament that all pointed to Jesus. Then when it was Jesus time to come to earth the new covenant started. If that replacement theology that's fine. Dispensationlist are missing the whole meaning of start God us communicating to us who love studying his word. There is one way to heaven (Kingdom of God, kingdom of heaven). That is through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who shed his blood for ALL of our sins. Period. That's been the whole message of the bible all along. I hope all the people who read this understand that besides following crazy doctrine to try to mix you up it confuse you. Jesus said the message is simple enough a child could understand it.
I know, you have repeated this time and again on various pages on this website, that I "take verses that aren't 100% clear and make up opinions", but you cannot seem to articulate a reasoned response for yourself. You say I am "missing the whole meaning of start God us [sic] communicating to us". That is quite a broad statement. There are many doctrines in the Bible. We are not in this article disputing the atonement of Christ, we are not disputing the various covenants that God made with the Patriarchs, we are not here disputing the doctrine of salvation, we are not here disputing the Deity of Christ etc... What we are disputing here is the erroneous doctrine of "replacement theology".
The command by God is to "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Timothy 4:2-4)
So many have turned their ears away from the truth, from sound doctrine. The fable of "replacement theology" is an assault on the sure promises of God to the children of Israel, and the clear message that God is not yet done with the Jews, but has set them aside while while He calls out of the Gentiles a people for His name. Replacement theologians have to distort hundreds of God's plainly spoken Words to Israel, and conflate them to mean the church. It is a disgrace.
You say above, "Jesus said the message is simple enough a child could understand it." You will have to show me where He said that. It is not in my Bible. Jesus did say, "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3-4) Jesus is here talking about salvation. Salvation is not a complicated list of things we have to do, we are saved through faith, unconditional faith, like the unquestioning trust of a little child. But again, we are not disputing the doctrine of salvation in this article , so quit throwing out your red herrings.
The fact of the matter, is when it comes to various doctrines in the Bible, some are "hard to be understood", as Peter says in his second epistle, when speaking of "our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." (2 Peter 3:15-18)
I would encourage you Paul, to get off Youtube, there is too much false teaching there, and stick to the pure unadulterated Word of God and He will give you Light.
"All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge. Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it." (Proverbs 8:8-11)
Can you explain then how WE those of us who are "branches" of the tree(Israel") fit into this? Rom 11:1124?
Hi Rhonda, I am not sure exactly what you are looking for. I will attempt to answer, but if it is not exactly what you are looking for, you can reply again. You made reference to Romans 11:11-24. That chapter starts out, "Hath God cast away his people? God forbid." (Romans 11:1) Verse 11 says, "Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles" (Romans 11:11)
We must understand that "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), not just the Jews, but the Gentiles also. It was quite evident that God would visit the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. When Simeon beheld the child Christ he said,"For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people, A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel." (Luke 2:30-32). He said, "Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against" (Romans 2:34)
This is none other that what the prophets had foretold, "And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth." (Isaiah 49:6)
The tabernacle of David had fallen down (Acts 15:14-17), The prophet Amos said, "I will sift the house of Israel among all nations" but then He said, "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old" (Amos 9:9-12)
"The tabernacle of David would rise once again, Israel would seek the Lord their God in the "latter days" (Hosea 3:4-5). Now Paul says, "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles how much more their fulness?" (Romans 11:12)
God had set aside Israel because of the hardness of heart, because of their blindness, because they resist the Holy Spirit, because they did not know the time of their visitation, but this would only be temporary. "For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" (Romans 11:15)
The "olive tree" is Israel, but the root is Abraham from who came Israel. Some of the branches were broken off because of unbelief, and some of the Gentiles were grafted in by faith, the same faith of Abraham while he was yet uncircumcised. Gentiles do not become Jews, they come to God by grace through faith (Read Romans 4). Nevertheless, we have a great many benefits because of Israel. Although some of the branches were broken off, they can be grafted in again if they believe.
Paul sums it up as follows, "For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Romans 11:24-27)
Hope this helps